1. Welcome to the Soccer Spirits Forum! We're dedicated to creating the best community in Soccer Spirits, where you can get help about your team, units, or share general tactics! So why not join us ? Or, you can login with facebook. Registering will also disable ads!
  2. Dont post your team questions here! There is a Team Advice section for this purpose.

Mono Dark, no legends, Ravian

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Viticide, Aug 6, 2017.

  1. Viticide

    Viticide Bronze

    Messages:
    511
    Location:
    USA
    IGN/ID:
    Viticide
    Club:
    Com2uStream
    Galaxy:
    Galaxy
    Colosseum:
    45
    Made it to Galaxy, barely, using this team. Had several people ask me about it so I decided to post a thread to explain some of it and to encourage others that despite how broken most legends have become you can still make Galaxy without them. Sorry but no videos I'm afraid. Suffice to say it does work, at times fails horribly, and screw Isillia.

    Shura, Hamerus, Ravian
    Lindberg, Lynbell, Lilith, Alice
    Patricia, Verister, Lucifer
    Ronald

    The Good

    Mono Dark can reach Galaxy without legends. But I'd highly advise against Ravian if anyone else wanted to do this. Lucid, Damien, and Vitos are all much better alternatives.

    This mid worked wonderfully! Undoubtedly what carried this team to Galaxy despite the lack of legends, the weak backline, and relying on Ravian as the Striker. Defensive totems can do a 4 mid well, they don't have to be used only in the back.

    Lynbell is an excellent CM. She may not provide as good of utility as Metatron but she is much more durable and has better reflexes. Her last rework was great for her giving her some of what she needed while doing away with what she didn't.

    Lilith can do well in mid without CI by acting as the secondary CM (I had her holding FS). She rarely has to endure being attacked while holding the ball in this position. And having a proper CM like Lynbell to share opposing penetration dmg does a lot for her survivability. I'm confident many other players with similar kits could do well like this too, especially those with similar power-up actives like Guinevere or Leah.

    Ronald is better than people give him credit for. He's not great and this is definitely a bad meta for him and other active blockers. But if BB ever does something about the serious disadvantage active blockers have Ronald could do well. Certainly won't be the best, but good enough that if you like him you can work with him just fine without serious setbacks. Works well for those who want high crit resist and can do even better with some healing support.

    The Bad

    Backline was weak. Needed Verister for her global totem and she had to hold PS for spirit gen. Lucifer was weak and I was unwilling to spend dstones to reroll one of his slots for EBM, leaving Patricia to hold it. As a result, my backline had trouble not so much in keeping the GK alive but in getting the ball out. No real linebreaker.

    Lucifer is bad. His rework does him nothing. He's niche, niche, niche and his rework will only make him even more niche. My team had a unique opportunity to actually put his niche to use, and in that regard he worked. But he is so fragile and his HP and def buff won't fix that. He needs DR, while alive. His offensive potential is weak, and neither are his reflexes nor speed anything good either. I highly advise against anyone using him. Even if I were to run this team again I'd drop him, move Patricia into his role of taking shots, and run Pinol or Krishna.

    The Ugly

    Ravian is just terrible. The only Striker worse than her is her own alternate self Rabian. Vayne might be as well, but I actually have some doubts there. Ravian has weak base dmg, has the worst ramping of any utility Strikers, and has been hurt the most by mechanics changes over the course of this game's history. HP drains suffering diminishing returns hurt her, utility Striker active nerf really hurt her, return dmg nerf hurt her, reduction in counterattack chance cap hurt her, and the ever growing pool of players is resulting in more counters to her such as more sources of healing, reflexes, and CAR. Gravity Down is terrible as it falls off hard in the dmg it deals resulting in just about any and all healing easily outdoing it. Inject Drugs II does nothing for her dmg directly and is insufficient in helping her indirectly. And thanks to that utility Striker nerf Spawn is good for about nothing but helping her die more easily. Ravian can't much shoot-steal loop anymore and even if she does her follow-up shot will still be weak. Ravian can't do what she's designed to do and even if she does somehow do it's not worthwhile. Her kit generally fails her and even punishes her in success.

    Much as I fear it as she is one of my favorite players, Ravian needs a complete rework. Her entire skillset has fallen hard and will never keep up with the games growth. Just buffing her will be ineffective. Even reverting some of the mechanics nerfs would be too little at this point. The idea of a Striker than can shoot-steal loop is hard to balance and I'd honestly suggest BB just do away with Spawn entirely so they can strengthen her without so much risk of breaking her. Lucid, Vann, Bora, really anyone else with mechanics to help them shoot more often all have stronger skills that are also easier to balance. Gravity Down needs to either not suffer any kind of diminishing returns, whether mechanics or self-inflicted, or it needs to have a much higher starting point than 15-20%. It's too easily outdone by healing to the point it is insignificant. It's the reason Ravian has the worst ramping. Inject Drug II, in light of my suggested dropping of Spawn, should also be dropped and replaced by something to act as Ravian's primary source of increased dmg. Additional reflexes aren't doing her much good right now even with Spawn, and would do her no good at all without it. And if she gained some AB mechanic in place of Spawn she could do without the AS as well.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2017
    Drakon, Nicolyce, Yuraji and 3 others like this.
  2. RoundBall

    RoundBall Cheap Galaxy Pleb

    Messages:
    428
    Club:
    Cataclysm
    Galaxy:
    Galaxy
    Colosseum:
    40 ish
    a masochist. i see...
     
  3. Yuraji

    Yuraji Bronze

    Messages:
    587
    IGN/ID:
    Yuraji
    Club:
    Arcanis
    Galaxy:
    Galaxy
    Colosseum:
    60
    Interesting formation. So I guess if mono dark can get to galaxy without any legends, the other elements will be able to as well.

    The thing about balancing Ravian is you can't ignore her in PVE. I would hate to see her shoot-steal-shoot removed because it works wonders in upper CoD matches. I do agree that her follow up shots are pathetic and need to be looked at though. To balance her, BB needs to break her out of the "utility striker" batch and make changes as an individual striker. For example, keep her active stacks on non active shots or make her Spawn AI not try stealing from healing GKs that have unlikely chance to be stolen from. I doubt BB is willing to go that far for balance though.

    I guess the bottom line excuse is that she just doesn't work in this meta. If someone really wants to use her for wifu status they can definitely make her do damage going the Armel route.
     
  4. Viticide

    Viticide Bronze

    Messages:
    511
    Location:
    USA
    IGN/ID:
    Viticide
    Club:
    Com2uStream
    Galaxy:
    Galaxy
    Colosseum:
    45
    Honestly, all utility Strikers need their actives to at least apply on all shots instead of just actives. But Ravian is the one who'll still be left overly nerfed even then because of her shoot-steal mechanic. That's why I say to do away with it. There's really no way to balance it well as it's either too weak or too strong. She can still be great at PvE content without it depending what her skillset becomes instead.

    As for making her do better damage, you're looking to the wrong unit. Not Armel. Baltheon. Baltheon is so op right now he makes any Striker a threat. I'm eager for Armel EE to see what she gets, though, besides an obvious increase in her active's effect. And to see what they do with her art, lol.
     
  5. Mikiyuto_

    Mikiyuto_

    Messages:
    47
    IGN/ID:
    Mikiyuto
    RANT/MAIN REPLY:
    I still use ravian instead of my damien for pve and story. In story mode the hp is ridiculously high and the 15% hp dmg is pretty nice although i find her actual shot damage garbage. Her reflexes are quite high withWith inject drugs II. She is faster than my damien who has more mspu than her. This skill is not bad supposed to compliment her spawn skill for the attack steal attack. I dont think they should off these two skills but maybe rework or add some other aditional effects. If they were to rework her she would lose all her meaning as a utility striker. She might as well become lucid 2.0. Bb definitely thought ravian was too op so came all these nerfs but i agree there are way too many meta changes and new champs. Anyways high defenses and pos debuffs she also does zero damage in high cot. I put a veronica up with her just so i could see how high her reflexes could go. Her steals werr actual pretty nice but if you were to try a reflex strat in pvp especially against reflex debuff light defensive line.. isilla.. oh baby.. anyways her increase of 20% dmg of the shot is pretty useless with goalkeepers, dmg reduction passives, and more and her 15% dmg is countered by most gk heals.


    REWORK:
    In all honesty ravian is still viable in story and pve but it is hard to find a suitable formation and playstyle. I think ravian needs a huge buff rework. i dont know what to rework her specifically but it would be ideal to keep her utility the same bc this is the one thing that makes her her. One idea i have is to make her reflex orientated. For her inject drug II they can make it so she gets penetration for flat amount of reflex. 10% every 500 reflex or something like that. (Just adding on to her skill for more utlity) Anyways her spell spawn is plain as Frick. You get another action and crit. Cool. Crit doesnt even really matter at this point vs isillas. This is where you can add another additional thing. Some ideas? If bb decides they want rav to continue to be a stacks strikers they can make it so every additional action grants crit or debuffs crit in the line or specifically vs the goalkeeper.

    Ugh im tired but this is just my long rant and thoughts on my first striker waifu.
     
  6. Mikiyuto_

    Mikiyuto_

    Messages:
    47
    IGN/ID:
    Mikiyuto
    Also who do u recommend mspu first in the formation you used to get to galaxy? Im in dire need of a good cm so im thinking lynbell
     
  7. RoundBall

    RoundBall Cheap Galaxy Pleb

    Messages:
    428
    Club:
    Cataclysm
    Galaxy:
    Galaxy
    Colosseum:
    40 ish
    @Mikiyuto_

    best CM next to metatron imo are passers.
    and i've tried battalion Shura as well as battalion Alkyde. they both works well. they have reflex line buff too. and being a passer than means spirit generation and 70% return dmg (i think)
    Alkyde is unexpectedly study with the attack debuff, and has a good steal. (she's easy to get to +30 APU)
    Shura is as a CM,with left and right reflex buffers works well for unexpected counter then pass.

    Viti-chan will recommend the neet girl. which is fine too...
     
  8. Hypernova

    Hypernova

    Messages:
    72
    IGN/ID:
    Hypernova
    Club:
    小楼
    i used ravian to clear story on hell mode to clear that 12 minutes requirement since i don't have a good OHKO striker. shes good in that aspect.
     
  9. Viticide

    Viticide Bronze

    Messages:
    511
    Location:
    USA
    IGN/ID:
    Viticide
    Club:
    Com2uStream
    Galaxy:
    Galaxy
    Colosseum:
    45
    Correct you are there, lol.

    Lynbell has 20% DR and recovers 15% HP on being attacked. Makes her much more durable than anything else Dark has as a CM, even Meta. Better reflexes too.

    Alkyde I believe will work as a CM, but I don't think as well as Lynbell. I'd call her perhaps the 3rd best option. She's just not as durable nor as high on the reflexes. She actually has a better base reflex but lacks the additional 30% in her kit that Lynbell has. Her debuff is very nicely suited to the mid though.

    Shura... never really considered. Has Inspiring II though at least which the mid certainly likes. But her own reflexes and speed are lacking for an Assist. I just don't think she's worth giving up in the front even if she can be a capable CM. I think I'd consider Niarose before Shura since Niarose has much better AP and reflexes plus a useful forward pass. Assists get the next highest return dmg percentage after Attackers so Niarose can put that to potentially good use with the right support as a CM. If only Aura of True Power II weren't restricted to penetration. About the only way to get an Assist to penetrate is by receiving a strong pass (I don't think it has to be an active pass, but I could be wrong), and at that point if you're going to run two Assists in the mid might as well go the Alkyde CM route anyway. Meanwhile Hamerus and Baltheon both I think would also make better CMs than Shura, but both are even more so not worth taking out of front I feel. This may well be Dark's biggest problem with finding CMs outside Metatron: most are just better suited to other locations.

    Dale is Dark's best option as an Attacker CM, but I don't much like him for the job. He needs good crit support as his survivability is partly dependent on it. If only the other 40% DR in his kit weren't restricted to penetrations.

    Zibroi can CM too. But once again we go back to the issue of players being better suited elsewhere, and Zibroi is a GK first and foremost.

    And to go back to the Ravian issue, I just don't think Spawn is worth keeping on her at this point. It makes her unique but it's severely limiting her design potential. There are times when something just isn't worth keeping if it's creating too much restriction to keep. Gravity Down however doesn't have to go. I did suggest instead that it get a larger initial amount. It just falls off so fast in usefulness. And I've zero concern for Story Mode usefulness. I literally let my farm teams auto that thing even through Hell while I grinded exp, teamwork, and chains. Strong CM, Striker, GK, and linebreaker in back. That's all you need. Everyone else can be units you're farming whatever on. High CoD/CoT and Superb Bosses are the only concerns I think need be worried about in terms of Ravian for PvE. That viability can be kept, or even improved upon, in reworking her.

    Here's my proposed redesign for Ravian:

    Active: Can stay the same. However, I'd not be against taking her a different route from the utility Strikers. She is the one that first created this ramping active and Vonchi soon followed. Then all the other utility strikers joined in, and sadly Ravian has now become the worst of these type of Strikers despite being the first of them. What could also be done here? Give her a 5 min type cooldown similar to Uriel. She's going to need that shorter cooldown for my suggested change here (let it cost a full spirit too like Uriel's). Now, for her active I'd actually suggest merging Gravity Down into it. Make her active a large current HP drain effect, like 40%. Then tack on the condition that this drain only takes effect while the enemy's HP is over 60%. The skill is strong at near to full health, falls off a good bit at slightly above 60% but still delivers some dmg, and once the opponent is lower it shuts off. No diminishing returns needed. This makes Ravian into an anti-healer type of Striker. Give it a bit of crit boost too, like 15% so even when the health drain is shut off she gets something out of the spirit spent on the active.

    Spawn: Trash it. It may be her most stand-out feature, but it is severely limiting her ability to change and improve in other ways. Numerous other Strikers already prove that AB gain is not only more reliable (and thus effective) but also more easily balanced. She gives up her most unique feature but in exchange she stays something vaguely similar while leaving her more room to be worked with without the risk of breaking her. Ravian still has her ability to drain the enemy's HP as something no other Strikers do. She doesn't entirely lose her uniqueness.

    Inject Drug II: Trash this as well. Without Spawn and the gain of AB restore she no longer has any need for reflexes and action speed. So what has Ravian always rather lacked for in her kit? Actual dmg. Now I'm not saying give her anything particularly strong her. My goal is to make Gravity Down or her fusion of it into her active to become her defining unique feature. Give her something here to maintain a decent baseline so that she remains a threat once the health drain is shut off but doesn't guarantee her into a 2HKO. Baltheon's broken self is already doing a good enough job of that with all Strikers... So give her something like the amount of crit she had from Spawn plus maybe some AP, DI, or pen. Not a lot. Just something that at least says she's a better Striker than an Attacker would make.

    Gravity Down: If her active remained in its current state, then refer to my previous detailing of the suggested change and apply that here instead. But, if we turn her active into that aforementioned change, then what to do with this last passive slot? Not damage. I already suggested the replacement of Inject Drug II give her what she need for a baseline. So what instead? DR + healing! We've got a Striker her that is so far in my changes redesigned to make her an anti-healer. She has a strong open and weak finish. So how do we support this without further dmg? DR and healing would make her a resilient Striker. And as a resilient Striker Ravian may not have good damage to finish the job but she has the means to stay alive and continue trying to do so. Ravian's current form is a horribly suicidal mess. Let's instead make Ravian a Striker that stays alive. If she's to be a weak finisher she should not be further hindered by the typical frailty of Strikers. Give her something like 20% DR and 20% HP restore on taking dmg (applied before the dmg happens). She's not made into anything impossible to kill, but at least she becomes something that at requires the opponent put actual offensive strength into doing.

    To summarize my suggestion: Ravian is currently a Striker that neither starts nor finishes strong. She is horribly suicidal and struggles to make any part of her kit effective. Let's focus on keeping some of these aspects while doing a 180 on others into a polarized kit instead of a constant mess. Give Ravian a strong start through a strong initial health drain. Give her an acceptable baseline to work with at all times so she is never rendered completely ineffective but neither particularly strong outside that big health drain. Focus primarily on crit so her damage can stay consistently predictable rather than becoming erratic through something like low crit but high crit dmg or pen. And finally, turn her suicidal nature into something that represents a player who endures pain rather than giving in to it. Make her able to withstand punishment, both when she is attacked and when she receives dmg on attacking. Ravian stays unique while having a kit that isn't just plug and play. She gets rid of the mechanic that most limits her ability for future change. Note any numbers I suggested can be adjusted for proper balance. My focus was on the ideas rather than the exact balanced amounts.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2017
  10. Mikiyuto_

    Mikiyuto_

    Messages:
    47
    IGN/ID:
    Mikiyuto
    Good in depth rework idea, tbh don't particularly think bball will be reworking ravian again for a while. She has had so many changes and dark is kind of top mono team rn. They have other problems to worry about like presty or lucid + balth opness. I feel like they should add more cms for dark. Dale is really good i agree but i think an hp totem and crit would help immensely. Dale is like the dark duke. Honestly thinking about lynbell cm but i may put zibroi there too cause he is really weak gk for me. I'm thinking about replacing him with glayde and rainbow line. Only for the back though. And if glayde gets nerfed and recalled which i hope she does i can just recall her for ronald
     
  11. Hypernova

    Hypernova

    Messages:
    72
    IGN/ID:
    Hypernova
    Club:
    小楼
    dark is more of a debuff team, it's hard to find hp and crit totems unless you want to use cards like gerrard for crit in midlines.
     
  12. Mikiyuto_

    Mikiyuto_

    Messages:
    47
    IGN/ID:
    Mikiyuto
    Meh if you add verister and maybe assist like shura cm that would be decent buffs to team and mid, also dale ace 35% hp and attack power or lilith ace 40% attack power 25% crit i think
     
  13. FatalCookies

    FatalCookies Cookie Master

    Messages:
    644
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    IGN/ID:
    CookiesOP
    Club:
    Paradox cookie chef
    Galaxy:
    2600
    Colosseum:
    44
    eh it's not hard, just unlimited CA works

    ravian isn't bad, she's just in her own league
     

Share This Page