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Returning Player - Team Direction

Discussion in 'Team Advice' started by Jamtaro, Jun 10, 2018.

  1. Jamtaro


    I haven't played in a while, and I was hoping for some advice on what direction I should go with the team/players I have. Should I focus my efforts on a mono team (which one?) or should I continue fitting in players for my rainbow team?

    My current team and players.
  2. Lunette

    Lunette Writes too much about small topics.

    Earth (probably)
    The main question would be whether or not you have any favorite players and/or playstyles. You have a variety of options but all of them will require some work, be it in the form of new players, evolutions or training. So if (for example) you really want to use Bell but don’t care about Jiho, a mono thunder team would suddenly become a possibility.

    If you simply want to have a strong team as quickly as possible it’d be useful to know your current unique stones, they’re key elements to most teams.
  3. Jamtaro


    I suppose I should ask how good rainbow teams are vs. mono teams. Is one stronger than the other?

    If I had to pick a mono-color, maybe it'd be Ardor because most of my plusses are on Sharr?

    These are my current unique stones.

  4. Lunette

    Lunette Writes too much about small topics.

    Earth (probably)
    If we assume a perfect teamcomp, rainbow is far stronger. Problem with that is that it’d be something like this:

    Which is pretty hard to get without whaling/being an old player. You could probably make a team that still performs decent (especially since you have Jiho) but the optimal rainbow team is mono-legend and maybe the occasional Hyang Ran. The main advantage rainbow has for a more casual player is that they can change members easily, unlike teams with ace burst who need to watch their elements.

    Now, if you want to pick a mono (or hybrid team) I’d recommend picking units by how much you like them and not by how much investment you already have in them. Sharr IS an awesome striker but picking her over someone you might like more will not help you stay determined to focus on one team. Maybe even go into the unit catalogue and just look if there’s a unit you really like.
    Every element works with the correct mono/hybrid team. And while some of them are a little legend-dependent, you have the necessary legends in all elements except dark (they kinda need Presty in mono) but even dark players can fit in one of your teams if you use a hybrid ace.

    So the most important question I’d need you to answer (with certainty): What type of team do you want?
    Do you want to get as strong as possible as quickly as possible or do you want to take your time? Do you want to focus on building a team around some core characters you really like the design of (if yes; who?) or do you not care about what characters are in your team? Do you like to play defensively or offensively?

    All of those options will be strong but being comfortable with your team even if it isn’t a peak meta-team is important. I, for example, could theoretically build a full legend team but I’ve always preferred using my mono-thunder, it just feels right.
    Your units and stones don’t push you in any direction either because you have a bit of/for everything but not everything anywhere so I can’t really make a decision for you (several equally good ones).

    Answer me the questions above and I can make you a pretty detailed team list but I can’t make one otherwise due to your array of options being a little wider than the usual players’.
  5. Jamtaro


    Thank you for the detailed reply!

    I particularly like Jiho, so building any team with her on it would be great. Other than Jiho, I tend to like the players from Ardor/Thunder more than the others. I don't mind the team-building process taking longer, and I don't have a preference between defensive/offensive playstyles.
  6. Lunette

    Lunette Writes too much about small topics.

    Earth (probably)
    Sorry for the slow reply, it was late in the night when I answered so I was sleeping until an hour ago.

    I’m going to go for a T/A hybrid team, if you want a rainbow team, many of the key characters would stay the same (and Jiho would be the ace). If you don’t care about my reasoning behind my choices (would be understandable), just scroll down until you see some colorful writing.

    1)When building a team you have to start with an ace. T/A has three of them: Jean (49% HP/atk), Lemy (35%dr) and Dane (42% CritRate/49% CDMG).

    Jean is a pure long-range striker, which is pretty interesting in PvE but you already have an invested PvE striker (Sharr) so building him would be redundant.

    Lemy is a free unit from colosseum (as you noticed) so she’d be the easiest to get/superb. However, her skills are kinda mediocre when compared to midline titans with the same role like Victoria. She is definitely usable though.

    Dane is in an interesting spot. He’s a long range shooter that (unlike Jean) has a lot more team utility. His shot recovers the team’s AB, he has a small reflex/speed totem and can offer CritRate/pen to your striker from the midline. But while his ace is definitely brilliant, he’d probably need some investment to work well.

    2) After the ace (Dane), the key players, that is your striker, GK, CM and passer need to be determined.

    Ardor’s GKs are sadly not in too great of a spot. Both Lucian and Angela were once great but have been nerfed and are now subpar. Raklet was always horrible but received some buffs and is now a decent self sufficient GK. I don’t know much about Taehoon but he’d probably be at about the same level as the current Raklet. So Glayde is probably your best bet. Her main perk is that she can strengthen totems on her by 40%, making her a big fan of 4-man backlines which synergises well with Dane’s ace which gives enough buffs to the front that they don’t need a fourth player.

    Best striker will be Kyoko. She basically is a mini-Leventor so she will probably always be relevant. Maybe not always the best option but always good. Sharr is sadly too slow for a PvP team, she will help you with PvE though. Kyoko has basically everything a striker wants except CritRate, which will be the main focus when building her apart from a Glabaris.

    One of your passers will have to be Karpila. She has one of the highest pass stats, competing with Baltheon while having the advantage of not being a legend. Glayde also has a chain to her, giving your GK an additional 40% def.

    CM has a variety of options (Kyosuke, Erica, etc.) but in my probably biased opinion Bell is the best option. She has the stats of a legend, is pretty beefy if you give her some stones, hits like a truck and her totem is basically perfect for the midline.

    3) The rest of the team can basically be picked by looking at chains and “metaness”, resulting in this team:

    Kyoko (Glab)-Karpila (SC)- Renee (AfK)
    Victoria (TB)-Bell (TW)-Dane (SHoT)
    Jiho (BE)-Altair (CI)-Chundo (EA)-Nerua (EotS)
    Glayde (PoME)

    Most of these units can be changed if you notice you’re lacking something or if they are easier to build and you don’t have a preference. If you get MotB or have the feeling your backline is too slow, you can just put Kevin in Altair’s place and it’ll work just fine.
    If you’re missing CritRate, exchange one of your passers for Elaine and you should have enough.
    If you want to experiment with the other aces, they all fit in the same position I’ve put Dane in so you can just swap them out. (If you try Lemy, I’d recommend removing Nerua from the backline and making a 4-man front with Elaine).
    Same goes for other players, want to try out Angela/Griffith/Yuri/etc? You can pretty much exchange them for their equivalent. Might not always result in the best synergy but as long as you do what feels good, you’ll eventually have a team you just don’t want to change anymore.
    If you don’t want Dane to shoot, you just avoid putting any points into his active and build him full-reflex.

    If you want me to explain my choices a bit more, just ask. If you have any other questions, ask as well. If you want a rainbow team instead, tell me. I can also offer you to stand in as a sparring partner if you want to test out your team but my main team is probably still a little too overleveled for you so I’d have to use some side teams (pretty much everything except thunder because I was one of the indecisive ones). If you need a certain friend lead for PvE, tell/add me and I can try to organize it.

    I have the most experience with thunder units so my ardor advice might not always be on point but I will do my best to answer your questions.
  7. Jamtaro


    A lot of it was very well explained, thank you! I don't know the abbreviations for spirit stones though, so I'll look them up later.

    If possible, could you also give a recommendation on a rainbow team/mono-Ardor/mono-Thunder team?

    Most of my concerns are about whether or not I should draw/scout a certain player (and then invest in them), so I'd like to try and learn about what options are available while pertaining to my preference. I actually have Altair and Renee in the scout, and I'm wondering if I should grab them after seeing your T/A hybrid team recommendation.
  8. Lunette

    Lunette Writes too much about small topics.

    Earth (probably)
    The spirit stones I mentioned were:
    -Glab/Glabaris (evil looking devil face): 40% atk and 35% pen power

    -SC/Silent Cold (snowflake): 30% pass effect personal and 12% CritDamage in line

    -AfK/Ampoule from Kanrau (purple bottle): 35% pass effect personal and 10% CritRate in line

    -TB/Teranox’s Blood (red droplet): 25% atk per critical hit, up to 75% and 30% CritRate

    -TW/Thousand Watchers (big eye): 70% atk when attacked personal and 12% reflex in line

    -SHoT/Shaking Heart of Thunder (lightning symbol): 35% CritRate and CritDamage

    -BE/Blazing Essence (red bottle with sparks): 45% CritRate on pen or steal and 50% attack

    -CI/Calm Icicle (ice crystal): 25% action speed and damage reduction (DR) when not holding the ball and 60% attack on steal

    -EA/Evolved Addiction (blue starfish with a mouth): 15% action speed personal and 15% CritResistance reduction for enemies in vertical line

    -EotS/Eye of the Storm (star with green swirls around it): 8% damage reduction on allies and 10% action speed reduction on enemies both in line

    -PoME/Protection of Mother Earth (blueish shield): 20% damage reduction and 25% CritRes

    Those stones are what I think is ideal, it will depend on what you get/what your units need. Thousand watchers (for example) might be useless if your midline already has 3000 reflex without it, which is possible if you use Victoria.
    There are also legendary uniques which are basically two uniques in one but that’s a can of worms I won’t open for now. Just don’t sell/throw away any of your uniques.

    Teams (without uniques):

    Jiho-Death Queen-Chundo

    Ardor is currently not the best mono team due to the lack of a dominant (non-legendary) GK. The team uses Melisa’s ace (40% pen 48% HP) and a 4-man front to be offensive but give the DR-stacking Angela enough defensive stats to withstand a couple shots.


    Being fully offensive with Griffith’s ace to end the game quickly while being fast with high reflex to avoid having the enemy get through too many shots because just like ardor, thunder doesn’t have a top tier/non-legend GK. Glayde is strong, but only if she gets good totems and sadly, many good totems are not thunder. In the midline (where I made the “/“s) you pick either both the left ones or the right ones. Haru is a little more offensive/a better stealer than Lynia while Lynia has a great totem.
    Raklet is also an alternative to Glayde because she has great natural tankyness (that girl‘s got a lot of HP) and an interesting ace that allows her to avoid crits from many strikers. Bu if you plan on using your thunder GK outside of mono, Glayde is more versatile.

    Jiho-Nerua/Magnus-Hyang Ran

    A cookie-cutter rainbow team with a double passer front, a high reflex midline and a self healing CritDamage resist backline. Jiho is the ace and you choose between Nerua and Magnus depending on who you face, with Jiho‘s ace you can have 45% impenetrable DR from all elements but Dark (where you can pick something like Kevin or Altair). You can expand any line you want depending on your playstyle, most likely it will either be Chundo for your backline or Elaine for your front, though a Gaphyl or Lynmay in the midline works as wall.

    When in doubt about scouting a certain player, don‘t. They will reappear one day and since you said that you can wait, you will definitely see them again one day. Being afraid of investing is not a solution though, you will be able to farm more and more resources over time and train many players (I have ~70 players at 6* or higher). The biggest investments are 7* training and Littres. Those are not as easy to get by but even then you will be able get enough over time (I have 24 players at 7* and MSPU, 8 of which are strikers).

    Your priority with investing will be Striker>GK>CM=passer. All the other units will basically stay at 5 to 6* and only get superbs through dupes you pull so you have some time to notice which units you like and which you don‘t.
    So if you‘re certain you want to use Kyoko and Glayde, you won‘t have too many problems.

    Altair and Renee are both great. Altair is a speedy stealer that offers DR for your backline while having one of the few PenResist totems, which can synergise with Glayde‘s built in PenResist and totem enhancement.
    Renee is a bulky passer specialized in ardor frontlines. She can have high stats across the board and is often a key player in ardor fronts. Her totem includes receiving pass effect (effectively enhancing all passes made to your striker) and while the 20% CritRate are not great, she can push it up to 30% with AFK in her dark slot or get your PS (stone lady) to generate spirit.
    If I had to recommend one of the two, Renee would probably be the safer one (you already have one ardor striker after all).

    For the moment you can just use Lemy‘s ace and remove Altair/Kevin from the backline plan and instead use a 4-man front with Elaine and just try out how it feels to play with your teamcomp.

    If you want to draw, do it either on ardor day (Tuesday), thunder day (Wednesday) or on a weekend with interesting players.
  9. Jamtaro


    Thank you so much for the detailed answer! It really helped me get an idea of how I want to proceed.

    I think I'll work on slowly transitioning from Sharr to Kyoko as I invest in her. For now, I'll stick with a rainbow team until I come across more players for mono-color and then give that a try based on your recommendations.

    Out of curiosity, are there any legendary players that I should prioritize over the others should I spot them in scout and/or in the rate-up draw?
  10. Lunette

    Lunette Writes too much about small topics.

    Earth (probably)
    In scout, there should be no priority for now. If you get a legend there, buy it, but never look for legends. Due to the low rates, it usually is just a waste of gold; something you can’t afford if you’re still missing uniques. Once your whole team has the uniques you want them to have, you could take scout refreshing into consideration but with legendary uniques being a thing, even that is probably not worth it.

    In draws you (as someone aiming for a certain color) should only draw if a key player for that color (ardor legend) has a rate-up. If you’re impatient, draw when an interesting legend pops up; if you’re patient, wait until there are two legends of your element (like the recent Kirna+Leventor rate-up for thunder players).

    I’m going to assume your mono-plans are either thunder or ardor.

    -Jiho/Bell you already have. Do not try to pull them for dupes, it’s a waste of crystals.

    -William/Leventor are QoL improvements. They (especially Leventor) are strong strikers that may even have an edge over the normal strikers of their elements but they don’t fill a role that couldn’t be filled otherwise. Leventor is probably better that other thunder strikers but Griffith can do her job fairly well while William is about the same level as a well built Kyoko. If, however you plan on rerolling stone slots of certain units, William becomes a prime candidate due to him gaining an absurd amount of power with a strong front +Metatron’s Will or even some of the thunder stones.

    -Shu/Askeladd are the PvE gods. Shu is (as far as I’ve heard) a huge help in CoT, one of the most important farming locations. Askeladd on the other hand is a key member of many one hit strategies with her teamwide damage buff and having a long pass that acts the same as an in line pass (Aske->Passer->Striker->damage). However, they can often be used through the friend list with friend-Askeladd having the minor drawback of not allowing you to use a 4-man OHKO front. If you want to focus on PvE, they are your guy/gal. (Askeladd probably has a higher priority)

    -Choi is a mix between good PvE and good PvP capabilities but has not much that really sets him apart. Sure, he has decent totems and is strong on his own but other legends are more gamechanging than he is. He is often a part of PvP OHKO strategies due to his active being free, making him a good way to bring the ball to the front while also buffing said front a little.

    -Felix/Nabi are popular midliners. I don’t know enough about Nabi to say for sure but her stats and 3rd passive make her a strong wall/stealer, her totem is awesome (There are only a few Action Speed totems and they’re all weaker than her’s). She has Askeladd’s pass as a Forward pass but instead of giving offensive buffs she has interesting and rare debuffs (Healing and Coop def debuffs are only shared by one player each I think) while also giving you some DI to still do a similar combo to that with Askeladd.
    Felix may not be as team utility based (teamwide heal/revive is still pretty strong) but he is a stat monster. Even without stone reroll he can obtain 40% coop chance, being even higher with the right reroll. Combine that with his natural tankyness and revival time and he will often be a nuisance to enemies trying to get through your midline without wanting to heal your whole team and giving it AB. Also, his reflex stat is just insanely high (Mine has 2.7k reflex without any totems or aces).
    Nabi could fill the non-Victoria mid side in a mono-ardor and even CM in a team without an ardor GK (with one you will probably want Erika for her totem and her great ace).
    Felix is a great CM or maybe even backliner for both A/T and mono thunder. He can also be built in a variety of ways, making him a good stealer/linebreaker/reflex wall/tank due to his stone slots being freed from the usual must-have reflex stones. (One or two of them are still useful because high base reflex means a big increase with just a little stone buffs)

    -Kirna is an interesting GK. Her pure defensive stats are pretty bad, meaning she will take a lot of damage without support. What makes her strong is her insanely high (indirect) CritResist and her Shield, which is basically a 70% max HP heal with some stat buffs. She is one of the most annoying GKs to take out for teams too slow for her backline because her shield is up pretty often and the impossibility of getting an active pass- solo shot on her. She is probably the best choice for a mono-thunder GK due to her having great sunergy with thunder players (like Vanity).

    -Ein is fairly new but she already looks like a future top-tier GK. She might not be as strong as Presty but her ability to “erase” 30% of the enemy’s damage is strong, especially coupled with her other two strong defensive passives. While the charge system of her first passive might be a risk, giving her a fast backline (Kevin and co.) will lower it to a minimum. She’s also the first competitive GK with a long pass which will probably lead to some interesting strategies. Her chains are also absolutely godlike, all being to important ardor players that (to you) are easy to accquire (affection to Death Queen, Friendship to Jiho and rivalry to Elaine/Melisa).

    Long story short, Ein is probably the best investment for you due to ardor lacking a top tier GK apart from her and her synergy with the units you can certainly get. She’s also guaranteed to stay a new star legend for a while (unlike Kirna), which guarantees that she will one day be on rate-up with another old star A/T legend; perfect for you.
    From the old star legends, Nabi is probably the best for you bit all the others are close depending on what you will want in the future. Askeladd and Shu would probably be among the lowest in terms of priority due to them being usable through friend leads (Again, I could provide you with an Askeladd if you’d ever need one.).

    Keep in mind that all of those legends will (due to being money-makers) probably always be relevant and strong parts for a mono team and that I only have experience playing against Kirna and the ardor legends, making my knowledge on them limited/unreliable.
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2018

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